By Anton Lang ~
I was recently asked if there was a way I could tell how many turbines were rotating at a wind plant, other than actually driving by one of these Industrial plants and and actually counting them.
This is a tricky one to answer correctly, and you’ll soon see why.
I sometimes do it myself, work out how many of those turbines are actually working, and you can tell by looking at the actual turbine itself, because the huge blades out front of the turbine are rotating, but other than that, is there another way?
In one word ….. yes, and I can show you how that is done. However, it is so complex that the average person would not even begin to know how to do it, and from that, you can now see how easy it is for the pro green lobby wind supporters to ‘get away with’ saying what they say about wind power being so good, because no one can really disprove what they say without an awful lot of work.
So, here’s how something like that could be done. You would need to know which wind plant to look at, and here in Australia, there are currently 76 separate wind plants.
Have you got that? Seventy six separate wind plants to look at, and that’s just here in Australia, because in other Countries, that number of wind plants could be well up over hundreds or more of them, so, again, see the scale of a task like this.
First, knowing the name of the wind plant you want to look at, you would need to know how many turbines that plant actually has. So here, you would need to go to the plant’s website and find out the number of turbines, but that’s not all. You would also need to know what type of turbine, and the power output in MegaWatts, and as well as that, the total Nameplate for the plant in question. That way, knowing that, and then finding the total output of the plant for a point in time, then you could work out the number of turbines which are working at that point in time. Now perhaps the complexity of the task is sinking in. I can do this, because I know exactly those things to look for, and where to go to find them, and I’m not writing this to show how good I am, but that a task like this is almost impossible to work out for the average person, and also how that wind supporters lobby can say whatever they want to, because no one (and probably even them) knows where to find that information.
So, then, let’s look at an example then. And here, we’ll use the Macarthur wind plant in Victoria. (shown in the image at right, and if you click on the image , it will open at a new window, and at a larger size, so you can better see the detail) This plant is now the third largest wind plant in Australia, but for close on seven years it was the largest. Here’s the link to that plant, and here for the sake of ease, I’m using the Wikipedia site, which in fact is now hopelessly out of date, but it does have the required information. The information we need is under the map for the site location at the right of screen. It says there that the total Nameplate for this plant is 420MW, that each turbine is of 3MW, hence there are 140 individual turbines.
Okay, so now we have that information. All we need now is to find a site which details the output of that wind plant, and on a time scale that can be used for a reasonable accuracy.
Here’s the link to the website where I get all my data from. Once you are there, that image you see is the overall general page for the daily power data from every power plant in the Country, and it’s actually shown in real time, as it is updated every five minutes from the AEMO data. (the Australian electrical power generation Regulatory Site) The top image is a map of Australia showing ALL the power plants of every type, and if you scroll down a little, you’ll see the graph for ALL power generation, from every source in the Country. From that, you need to isolate out just the Wind plant data. So, look down the right hand side of the page and you’ll see a heading titled ‘About the Australian Electricity Grid’. In the text, you’ll see the highlighted links to all the sources, so you need to look at the one link for ….. wind power. (and here, rather than do all of that, here’s the link to that wind power page.)
This shows the default for the current data for the actual time you just clicked onto the site, and as I mentioned above, this is also updated every five minutes.
So here, at the top right of that page, in the black heading, you see the day and the time. Click on that and when the calendar comes up for this Month, change the date to the day in question that you wish to view, and here the date I have used as an example is Wednesday 22 June 2022, so click on that date. Here, rather than go through all the steps above, this is that link to that day.
When that page opens, you see the default graph there for all 76 wind plants in Australia, and here the default shows the Capacity Factor (%) for each wind plant, and each one is shown in a different colour. So, to now get the power output, see at the top right of that graph it has % and MW. Well here, now click on MW, and a black line appears showing the total power output across the day for all 76 wind plants.
Under the graph is the list of each of those 76 wind plants, all coded with their AEMO code. Each of those 76 plants has the box alongside it ticked, so each plant’s total is added to the overall total, that black line on the graph.
At the bottom of the coded list is listed the five States in the AEMO coverage area. Above that you see at the end of the codes, the boxes for sub total and total.
So, here, as we want just the information for Macarthur wind, so, now, untick the boxes for every state and also untick the box for Total ….. and now you should have a blank graph.
Okay, now tick just the box for Macarthur wind, coded as MACARTH1. What you now see on the graph is the total output across the day for the Macarthur wind plant. The data is listed for time across the page and you can see that as you hover your mouse across the page, anywhere at all. Do it slowly, and you can see that the data is updated every five minutes, and the data is shown in real time, as the page is updated every five minutes.
Pick a point in time across the day, and here, I’ll make it easy and pick the low point for the day shown here as 18:00, so that’s 6PM. Here is the link to that individual point in time graph, and I have shown the image of that at right, and if you click on the image, it will open on a new page and at a larger size, so you can see the detail more easily, and as you can see in the codes below the graph, the only indicated plant is that for Macarthur Wind.
The total here is 19MW. So in the five minutes leading up to 6PM, Macarthur wind had six of its 140 towers with the blades actually turning and generating power. SIX OF THEM.
Okay, now why I detailed every step here is to show you how the exercise CAN actually be done ….. but to show you just how difficult, nigh on impossible, that task actually is.
There are 76 individual wind plants that you can check, and there are 288 individual time points across the day, and also, the information dates back to the very day that the wind plant came on line, so in the case of Macarthur Wind, all the way back to its opening in January of 2013, although the data at this site only goes back to March of 2014, so there are a little more than 3000 days, so more than 864,000 individual time points that could feasibly be checked, just for Macarthur Wind alone just the one wind plant of 76 individual wind plants.
The task would be monumental.
Also, as a generalisation here, and one I have occasionally used in my daily wind generation Posts, you could do a similar task for the overall representation, and here, note I used the word ‘generalisation’. For that same day, go back to the total for very wind plant in the Country. The overall total Nameplate is is now 9854MW, and while the total number of turbines all up would be difficult to find out, and also a long task to find out, the generalised number might be roughly calculated. The current average for all turbines is (around) 3MW, so that means there are around 3280 individual turbines across Australia. So, for this same day, only now using the total power, then at the low point for the day, just before 6PM, then the total output is 1270MW, and at a 3MW average, then at that low point in time for this day, there were only 420 of those towers which had their blades turning over and generating power, but again, that’s just a generalisation. 420 turbines out of a total of 3280 turbines.
And therein lies the sneakiness behind those green lobby wind supporters. They KNOW that no one will ever go and check ….. even if they knew how to go and check in the first place.
I didn’t do all of this to show I know everything, but just to show you how complex something like this really is, so I hope this helps you here. Sometimes, a seemingly simple question can become so involved.
*****
A further observation was also made that if so many turbines were not in operation, then how many of those might be because they have a fault that cannot be repaired within a short time.
We keep hearing that wind is now the cheapest form of power generation, and it’s just so much BS really. The actual maintenance costs on wind plant turbines is horrendous, something you will also never hear about. At a coal fired Unit, you have ONE unit at ground level to service, so walk in, do the work, and walk out. With a wind plant it’s anything up to (and more than) a hundred Units, all of them at skyscraper height, some of them, at 120 metres above the ground, (and the official height of a skyscraper, the tallest building in any city being just 100 metres) and then the tradesman doing the work is working in a confined space. The image at right shows the breakdown of a typical Wind turbine inside the nacelle on top of the huge tower, and if you click on the image it will open at a new window and at an increased size, so you can better see the detail. There are stairs inside that huge tower, but imagine walking up thousands of stairs inside a very confined space to work on the generator inside that nacelle at the top of that tall tower, again in a very very confined space inside the nacelle, and to carry all your equipment and spares needed as well. These days, nearly every wind plant has to hire a helicopter to insert the workers from the top, onto a platform on top of the nacelle. The costs of maintenance are in fact so horrendous, that it’s sometimes cheaper to leave the Unit isolated and turned off than it is to service it. Again, that’s something you’ll NEVER know, and they wouldn’t tell you anyway even if requested. And they are more fragile than coal fired Units as well.
All of that adds to the reason why the Capacity Factor is so low for wind generation, and has just not improved over the years. That’s one of the reasons I have been keeping that data I keep on that daily basis, to actually show that. We are also being told that the newer turbines are so much more reliable and that in time, that Capacity Factor will increase as more and more new ones are added to the grid, and again, that’s just not true, as my data bears out. Over the four years I have been keeping this data on that daily basis now, the CF has stayed virtually the same, at that figure of 30%. In that time, the total Nameplate for wind generation has almost doubled (from 5301MW to what is now 9854MW) with so many new Plants added to the grid, and that CF is still at that 30% figure it was when I first started doing it. I have used that 30% here for Australia for more than twelve years now, and one of the reasons I started to keep this data was that I was told it was improving year on year, and that the 30% figure was a ….. GROSS understatement. It’s actually totally accurate.
Anton Lang uses the screen name of TonyfromOz, and he writes at this site, PA Pundits International on topics related to electrical power generation, from all sources, concentrating mainly on Renewable Power, and how the two most favoured methods of renewable power generation, Wind Power and all versions of Solar Power, fail comprehensively to deliver levels of power required to replace traditional power generation. His Bio is at this link.
OzWindPowerGenerationTFO
prcgoard
Tue 08/02/2022
Hi Tony,
I am receiving some e-mails with comments about this topic, but the web site has not up-dated since June 25 2022. I submitted a comment to Chris Morris’s item on August 1, but that has not appeared in the e-mails nor, of course, on the web site. Whether this is just my computer, for which I have no clue, or have you blocked me? – Paul [This is FYI & should not be published, as I cannot see any other way of contacting you.]
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TonyfromOz
Tue 08/02/2022
prcgoard, thanks for this comment, and hey, I have no idea what happened here.
The comment didn’t show up until I found it via a ‘back door’, but when I did find it, I approved it straight away.
And if I might offer a comment here, this one post about wind turbines has drawn quite a large following, and from that, a commensurately large number of comments, something we don’t usually get here at our site, and that leads me to believe that people really do want factual information about wind generation, something that they won’t get in the mainstream.
Again, thanks for the comment.
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Chris Morris
Mon 08/01/2022
If you look towards the back of this catalogue, you can see how the generation changes with windspeed
https://pdf.archiexpo.com/pdf/vestas/3-mw-v112-30-mw-v126-30mw/88087-134407-_10.html
What they don’t say is the windspeed at 180m elevation is quite different to that at 10m so lots of once per rev cyclic stresses on blades, plus the “whumph” as the blade passes the tower which is the main source of the noise..
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TonyfromOz
Tue 08/02/2022
Chris, thanks for both of these comments, and I apologise for leaving my reply so late. I’ve been busy this last day and a half.
It’s so nice to get technical feedback of actual real world conditions, and you can bet that the general public would never hear or read of things like this, as information like this could prove quite damaging. It’s a difficult thing to try and explain that with a coal fired Unit, the maintenance is at ground level on ONE Unit, while a wind plant might have anything up to a hundred turbines (to equal just the Nameplate, without taking the Capacity Factor into account) to do similar regular maintenance on, and the work is in a confined space at the top of a 120 metre tower, with all the associated Workplace Health and Safety problems associated with that.
For so long I have tried to explain that the cost of any maintenance on wind plant, be it the turbines, the ancillary equipment, the Transmission equipment, is way more expansive than on a coal fired Unit, and not just by a relatively small amount, but by a horrendously huge multiplier. And that ‘problem’ is compounded even higher for offshore turbines.
Again, Chris, thanks for coming here and leaving a comment, and thanks for both links. As I have so often said, there are just not enough hours in the day to look at everything there is, so it’s so good to have extra eyes to point things out for me. Thanks.
Tony.
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Chris Morris
Mon 08/01/2022
Tony
You may find this explains the generator types better.
https://top10electrical.blogspot.com/2014/09/power-electronics-for-control-and-grid.html
I think the 3MW Vestas are type 3.
Usually on wind farms when a turbine fails, they leave it parked. They wait until they have a number of dead ones until they get the crane in to work on them. The large crane transport to and from sites is very expensive so they want to get reasonable value from it. Quite easy to estimate how many dead units there are.. Look at peak loads during good wind speeds and you can often see the readings top out below MCR. Divide shortfall by turbine rating. .
From the generators I have seen in the repair shop, the stators are definitely built down to a price. Very cheap construction so they get turn to turn faults in the random round wire coils. .
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Chris Morris
Sun 07/31/2022
Tony
Like others have commented, your explanation of how many are working is wrong. The mechanism controlling them alters the pitch so the generators can turn at appropriate speed through a variety of wind speeds. As they are not sync to the grid, they can have a variable rpm. The output is a function of input torque, not full load or nothing. It is asynchronous but goes though an AC/DC/AC converter to get the 50Hz. That’s why they need a stable grid link and can’t run islanded. That converter is why they don’t have inertia as there is no direct coupling. I could explain its generation in terms of the rotor load angle, but it can be confusing even for generator specialists.
Go up to a windfarm and time the speed. You will see that it is about 20% variability, at least on the ones I checked over a number of days. Normally on days when say the output is say 30% of MCR, all the turbines except the broken down ones are spinning and they are turning at about the same speed.. The output from each one may vary but that is a function of the pitch control.
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TonyfromOz
Sun 07/31/2022
Thanks for this information Chris.
I can understand most of it. I knew of the pitch control function keeping the blades revolving at relatively the same speed throughout the range of wind speed, between the low speed cutoff and the high speed cutoff points. I was wondering if the same applies for both direct drive and gearbox drive turbines. I don’t get to actually physically see them, and the only information I do have is from those daily Load Curves for either ALL the wind plants as a whole across the entire wind plant fleet, or I can isolate out an individual wind plant, and I just do the maths for output versus number of turbines, which, for the sake of understanding would be a fairly relatively accurate indicator for the average (non electrical engineering trained) person as to the number of turbines rotating at any point in time, and that’s the target base for this information.
Thanks again for taking the time to explain this in the form of a comment.
Tony.
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Nigel from NZ
Sun 07/17/2022
The Opennem website gives the Capacity factor for Macarthur wind farm for the last year at 20.2% compared to 24.5% over the life of the plant, August 2012 – June 2022. You have previously used 30% as the capacity factor. Mortens Lane which is relatively close to Macarthur gives 35.7% from Nov 2012 – June 2022 and 35.4% over the last year. (this would indicate the Macarthur drop off is not due to less wind). Is this a maintenance problem or is there another explanation?
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TonyfromOz
Sun 07/17/2022
Nigel,
thanks for leaving this comment, and strangely enough, I looked at exactly this wind plant on the data site I use yesterday, for Saturday’s results. I’ve been following Macarthur Wind, (and that’s the image of Macarthur wind that I use for these Posts) mainly because it’s one of the largest wind plants in the Country, and I’ve noticed over the years that it’s a very poor performer when it comes to power delivery. I’ve written a number of times that its Capacity Factor (CF) is well below the overall year round CF for all wind plants here in Australia, and the fact that last year was so low is not unexpected at all. There have actually been a few times, three or four of them now, when the whole plant has been off line, no power delivery at all, for weeks on end, and the longest was for almost five weeks, at zero power output. Why I looked yesterday was because that day had the highest (single point in time) power generation wind has achieved in its history, (well, sort of expected now that the Nameplate is so high) and I wanted to see how Macarthur performed. While the overall result saw wind as a whole over 50% more most of the day, and as high as 70%, and rising and falling as it does, Macarthur hovered around the 40% mark pretty much steadily across the whole day. That percentage CF equates to just an average of just 84MW from a Nameplate of 420MW. I thought that surely, with the wind so strong in that area, Macarthur should be performing better than that, so your calculated guess that there may be something more in it could be right on the mark. I might think that with 140 wind towers, and barely 40 of them working in perhaps one of the best wind conditions in recent times tells me that there might indeed be problems with this plant.
Again, thanks for the comment.
Tony.
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Nigel from NZ
Mon 07/18/2022
Hi, on further investigation it appears the original projections for Macarthur were for 1,250GWH per year which gives about the 30% capacity figure but it has never met those expectations. It’s best year was 2013 at 29.4% with 2020 and 2021 being it’s worst years at 21.1 and 21.5 which is a 36% decrease in output. I realize there could be many reasons for this drop off. This year is even lower although there appears to have been a large dropoff in April for some reason.
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TonyfromOz
Mon 07/18/2022
Nigel,
thanks again for leaving a Comment, and thanks too for pointing this out to me. I chased it down, and the Macarthur Plant was off line, and delivering no power whatsoever to the grid for 24 days, from the 8th April to the 2nd May. This makes four times now I have seen this at that particular Macarthur plant. One of those earlier times was during the sale of the Plant, and it was off line for around three weeks. Another time it was off line for five weeks. That time, I actually tried to contact someone at the Plant to ask why. After three calls, I finally did get onto someone at the Plant itself, and he explained to me that there was a major problem at the nearby Sub Station where the plant connects to the Transmission lines for the grid, and that was being repaired. I wonder why we never hear of problems like this, unless we actually go looking and find them ourselves. Thanks again for pointing this out. I’m not sure whether you are aware (or not) of the site I use for my data, and that’s the Aneroid site, at this link. It’s really comprehensive. The link takes you to the home page. Now, down the right hand side, under the heading About the Australian electricity grid, you’ll see the blue links for each individual power generation source. Click on the wind power link and you get the (real time) display for current wind power generation. At the top right, on the black menu bar line, you’ll see the calendar, and you can enter any day you like, and see the data. You can isolate out CF or total Power using the % MW tab above right on the graph itself. You can also find whole of Month data as well, and that’s how I located the data for Macarthur for April and May. There’s so much information shown at that site.
Again, thanks for finding this for me.
Tony.
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Gabriella and Nigel Petrie
Mon 07/18/2022
Hi Tony,
yes I have been looking at Aneroid for some time but I have recently discovered features on the openem.org.au site that I was not aware of and I think are possibly new.
If you click on the pie chart on the lower right of the page selecting a source by colour it then comes up with the stations of that type, click on the station and it comes up with that individual statioon output, double click and it goes to a further page where you can select the parameters you want to look for that station including output, price and capacity factor for the time period you have selected.
It even gives the output of the different units at the large coal stations so you can see which units are on line.
It also has information on imports and exports between states, battery and pumped hydro charging. (I was amazed to see Hornsdale recharging at 5.30 am one day where the wholesale rate was $400, very little wind was happening, gas was going flat out and large amounts of power being imported from Victoria, it discharget later that day when the wholesale rate was $1,500)
Some records go back to Dec 1998.
So several features not apparent to me or easier to use when compared to the Aneroid site.
You are probably aware of all this sorry for wasting your time.
Nigel
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TonyfromOz
Tue 07/19/2022
Nigel,
thanks again for this follow up Comment.
And also, many thanks for including the link with the explanation. I use the OpenNEM site you mention here as a secondary source for some of the data I include in my daily wind posts, but I was not aware of any of these features at that site.
This is new to me, so I want to thank you so much for finding this. I’ve lost count now of the number of sites that have come to my attention from other people finding them and then telling me about them. There’s just no way known I could have found all these on my own. There really just aren’t enough hours in the day to go looking for them all, and the extra sets of eyes who point them out to me are so much help.
As you say, it all looks new and it probably is, because at the top of each page is the text that it’s all still under development.
There’s just so much to see really, and it’ll take some time to look around, but this looks like something I’ll now add to the sites I use for reference purposes, although I’ll still be favouring the Aneroid site, which I have been using for so long now.
As you say, there’s so much to look at, and it’ll take me ages to see even a part of it.
Again, many thanks for pointing this out to me.
Tony.
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prcgoard
Wed 06/29/2022
May I query one aspect of your explanation? You state: “… for Macarthur Wind … The total here is 19MW. So in the five minutes leading up to 6PM, Macarthur wind had six of its 140 towers with the blades actually turning and generating power. SIX OF THEM.”
You have assumed that just six turbines a operating at full nameplate power while the rest are stationary. Turbines only work at full power when the wind is blowing at an optimum velocity. Most of the time the wind velocity is less, if at all. At half the optimum velocity the power output is probably a quarter of rated, so 24 operating perhaps? No, if output power is a fraction of the nameplate value, then, more likely, all are chugging along at the fraction for each. To find how many are out of action, one would have to take a look, or find a CCTV which is monitoring the site.
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TonyfromOz
Thu 06/30/2022
prcgoard, thanks for this question, and I apologise for coming to it later than when it was Posted, as I have been busy here.
As Electrical power generation is so technical, I have sought all along to keep it as simple in the explanation as I possibly can, but here is one time where I do have get technical, so I hope I can explain this as correctly as I can for you.
The Macarthur wind plant uses turbines from the Vestas Company, their V112-3.0MW (Onshore) turbine, so it has a 3MW generator inside the nacelle. This turbine is one which has a gearbox, as opposed to the Direct Drive turbines, which are so much heavier. Now why I mention the gearbox is that the blades out the front drive the low speed shaft. The gearbox converts the speed and drives the high speed shaft which drives the generator, thus producing a constant generated power throughout the speed range. The blades out the front will rotate at a (relatively) constant speed, throughout the wind speed range. There is a low speed cutoff, and a high speed cutoff. How the blades rotate at the relatively constant speed is done with the use of Pitch Control of the blades themselves. So, the pitch of the blades is varied throughout the wind speed range so those blades rotate at that relatively constant speed.
When in a low wind situation, usually when there is a large High Pressure Weather System overhead, then, the anemometer measuring the wind speed, sends the information to the controller which applies the brake to the turbine, and the blades stop rotating. In high wind situation, when the high pressure weather system passes and a Low Pressure System is approaching, and then with the wind plant under that low pressure system with tighter Isobars, the wind is stronger, and can reach a speed when the anemometer measures that speed as reaching the high speed cutoff, then again, the controller shuts down the blades, and usually feathers the blades as well.
Now, at both the low speed cutoff, and the high speed cutoff, the high speed shaft driving the generator is cut off from the low speed shaft, and there’s a reason for this. As the generator is so heavy, then it must ever so slowly rotate to stop the shaft bending or the bearings from brinnelling, and either or both of these things will make the generator inoperable, and will be very expensive. So, at this time, whilst ever the blades have stopped rotating, the generator itself is slowly ‘motoring’, and while it is doing this, that turbine is actually drawing power from the grid, or, as is most probably the case, consuming some of the generated power from the remaining turbines which are still operating.
So, as I mentioned in the text of the Post, at that point in time, there were six turbines in operation, probably one other, maybe, and the power output total would include that total from the operating turbines minus what the others are consuming whilst their blades are not in motion.
I hope this explanation is to your satisfaction.
Tony.
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prcgoard
Thu 06/30/2022
Thanks, Tony, for your explanation, but does not conform with diagrams of power vs wind velocity seen on the web. As the wind speed velocity would be much the same across a wind farm, why cannot all the turbines produce power? I am till puzzled. – Paul
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TonyfromOz
Thu 06/30/2022
Thanks again prcgoard,
the explanation I gave is what happens. The wind speed can vary from turbine to turbine on a wind plant. In nearly all footage I have seen of wind plants, there’s always at least one or two turbines where the blades are not rotating. They are either generating power, when the blades are rotating, or not generating power, when the blades are not rotating. There is no in between.
I have had 25 years working in the electrical trade, managing the trade, supervising the trade, teaching the trade, and examining the trade, and now fifteen years writing about all forms of electrical power generation, and evidently all of that counts for nothing because of ….. Doctor Google! I didn’t make that information up because there might be a perception I’m not keen on wind power. If anything else performed as badly doing what it is supposed to do, it would be laughed out of existence.
Again thanks for the comment, but it appears facts are not really what you want to hear.
Tony.
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David Pilt
Mon 06/27/2022
Anton, as a fellow Queenslander and Electrical Engineer, I also have been following the green beast’s progress. The ignorance of your facts extends into the engineering field, as i too use these sites for reference whilst discussing our energy future. By the way each of those 2800 wind machines that are not producing power will need to be continuously slowly rotating to avoid bearing annealing, hence at 50kw per MOTOR x 2800 = 140MW off the grid, which we are all paying for !!!
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TonyfromOz
Mon 06/27/2022
David,
thanks for this comment. As I mentioned to Jim in his comment below this one, sometimes people have a way of asking the questions that need to be asked, and without even knowing his question, you delivered the answer, so thanks for that.
I mentioned in my reply to his comment that very few people know anything about wind power, and while that extends into the engineering sector as well, it’s surprising that sometimes, even Electrical Engineers themselves, and people in that electrical field with electrical training, (and that would be me, as I only have the minor EE qualification (as you can see from my Bio) don’t know about it as well. I can go right back to when I started doing all of this, back in early 2008, and in fact, I didn’t know about any of it myself. I chased up information, as much as I could, because the first time I saw some of the facts, I actually didn’t believe them myself, so I had to go even deeper, and the first time I actually wrote about, and hesitated to hit the ‘Publish’ button, and there it was forever, well, even then I had this sneaking doubt that someone would come in and prove me wrong. However, the longer it went, and the more I looked, the more I was shocked that wind power was in fact so poor at doing what it was supposed to do ….. generate power.
If I, (as someone trained in that electrical field) had doubts, did not know, went looking for information, and then found it without believing some of it, then how can an ordinary untrained person in the general population be expected to know.
It comes down to us. We have to find …..SOME WAY to get ‘the message’ out there, and explain it in a way that they can understand it. I sometimes simplify it all perhaps a little too much, but the target here is that unknowing general population, so it has to be explained in manner they can grasp. After we get the general ‘idea’ out there, then we can go a little deeper, when people ask questions, as Jim did below.
Thanks for leaving this comment David, it’s always nice to get feedback of any sort at all.
Tony.
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barkerjim
Mon 06/27/2022
Hi Tony, I read many of your comments at JoNova. Is there a way to know how much power is being extracted from the grid by each of these wind plants? I have heard that each tower must spin for a “time” to keep the shafts from warping. They supposedly run the generators in motor mode to keep the blades moving. If this is true, then obviously the group power output would be less, but if the group output was also being used to spin “defective” towers, it would be lowered even more. Sometime in the past I spoke to a representative for an inverter supplier to the windmill industry. He wanted to find a repair source for the inverters and claimed to have warehouses full of bad units, making me believe that many of the spinning blades were not moving because of the wind. Just curious. Will add this comment over at JoNova, too.
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TonyfromOz
Mon 06/27/2022
Jim,
thanks for leaving this comment here. It’s always nice when synergy comes into play. I get up this morning, open up my home site and find these two comments waiting for me, and the second comment virtually answers your first comment. As I mentioned at the JoNova site, and as David also mentions, virtually no one at all knows any of the facts about wind generation. Now I have no illusions that people know anything about ….. ANY form of power generation, and hey, that’s understandable really. it’s like water. You turn on the tap, and the water flows out. You flick the switch, and the power comes on. No one knows more than that. Therein lies the problem. It’s ….. electrical power. To the average person, it’s just that. Where it actually comes from is of no real concern ….. as long as it’s there when you flick the switch. So, the thinking is that electrical power is, well, electrical power. It’s all the same, no matter where it comes from. People don’t really WANT TO know more than that.
However, if people were to be told even the basics about this form of power generation, wind power, than I’m certain that there would be some questions asked. An equivalent analogy might be about a ‘dud’ car that was released, not just the one car, but a whole model, every one of them. It’s similar with wind power. It IS that dud car, one that doesn’t actually work at doing what it’s SUPPOSED to do, in this generate electrical power.
But no one does know, and there are so many questions to be asked, and yours was just one of them, so thanks for that. As you can read in David Pitt’s comment above, he mentions the answer, 50KW per motor (the turbine itself) and the bearing problem he also mentions is in fact a major problem, and the reason they need to keep them slowly rotating, every so often, to avoid this.
Again, thanks for your comment.
Tony.
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HiFast
Sat 06/25/2022
Reblogged this on Climate Collections.
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