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12 Responses “NEW! Post Here NOW!” →

  1. needs tto be said

    Sun 08/31/2008

    from the Morning Call…Ramirez went down and the others stood around him, kicking him to the head and torso, Lawson said. But it was after Ramirez got up, while fighting with Donchak, that Lawson said Walsh ran up and sucker-punched him in the face.

    Ramirez fell to the ground with such force his head bounced off the macadam, leaving him unconscious. Then Piekarsky administered a final kick to the head, Lawson said.

    Multiple kicks and punches….

    Wendy, I was questioning Wendi’s private investigation into the “truth about the death of Luis Ramirez” not your investigation into the VOPUSA.

    About the weapon, we will have to wait until court. However, Wendi says that three of the boys saw the gun. They were under the influence of alcohol. Alcohol does tend to compromise your judgment and ability to reason. They also met afterward to make sure they had similar stories and to figure out how to try and get away with what they did. It’s a classic move to claim self defense or the presence of a weapon when you are trying to justify beating someone as badly as Ramirez was beaten.

    As far as what EMS found, I can not give you a link to that information. It came from someone on scene involved with his care. Just because you don’t know it to be true, doesn’t mean it isn’t.

    I also know that the officer on-duty that night had to call for a replacement and excuse himself from the case because of a personal connection to one of the three constituting a conflict of interest. Though probably irrelevant, that piece of information should at least give some credibility to what I know. The information is out there, if you know where to find it.

    You seemed to have missed the parts of the Morning Call article that describe the tox reports, .15% alcohol level (almost double the legal limit for driving) coupled with benzodiazapene (used in Xanax). In addition, I was recently told by someone from the EMS on the scene that the BACK of Ramirez’s head was “like jelly.” Well if it was the BACK of his head, then the trauma that likely caused his death (presuming no medical negligence on the part of the hospital, which is still plausible) was from the fall when he hit his head on the ground.
    You also fail to comprehend the fact that this man was truly an aggressor, and even if the boys had started the whole thing, because Ramirez was the adult, he is more liable for the events.
    You said, “Wendi says that three of the boys saw the gun.” No, Wendi simply read the Morning Call article all the way through. Try it. You might learn something. That’s where I got that piece of information from.
    Yes, the information IS out there, even though you are ignoring the important facts.


  2. When Pearl Harbor was attacked, the Japanese entered the US illegally. Our troops fought them. Japanese soldiers were killed. From that very day until this one, has anyone ever expressed grief over their (the Japanese’) death?

    To clarify even further, we were invaded by the Japanese that day. They came here legally and committed several crimes. We fought back by flying over Hiroshima and dropping an A-bomb. Were the men in those bomber jets ever condemmed?

    Just something to consider…


  3. needs to be said,
    Can you tell me where I can find evidence to support your statement “It went wrong when they consciously decided to continually kick and stomp him after he was down and incapacitated.” I’ve read the eyewitness report and Mr. Lawson’s testimony and I’ve only found ONE punch and ONE kick. Yes,I find these actions unacceptable, but I also find this constant embellishment of the FACTS unacceptable as well.


  4. Needs To Be Said, Yes I did take it apon myself to investigate some claims being made about the rally on Saturday, Mainly because I will be bringing my family including children. I am not racist , about white power or anything of the kind nor have I in ANY way passed values or thinking of that kind to my children. As passionate as I am about the wrongs of Illegal Immigration and as much as I agree with Wendi and VOPUSA I would NOT participate (even without my family) had I believed that the KKK and Skinheads were coming on behalf of them.

    I did my “private investigating” because of the hearsay but unfortunatly I was not going to assume either side was correct in the fact of who would be there and why, as a mother I need to do more than just “assume” when it comes to my family. That I found nothing linking Wendi or VOPUSA to the KKK or Skinheads ect or them encouraging them or asking for their help… is fact.
    After that fact, is purely my OPINION, if you need to read my post again please feel free to do so,I said “so just a thought here but I have a good feeling” no where did I state that I knew, know, have proof, or anything of the kind, I said something that I felt…. as an opinion, please if opinions are no longer allowed online let me know and I will be happy to keep my yap shut.
    If you would like the link that I found on GOOGLE that went to this site I would be happy to provide it, or feel free to use the handy GOOGLE feature yourself… and if still not satisfied join and search the site , or if further proof is need I can provide the details I used last night to sign up to look myself.

    ….stepping back off my soapbox…..


  5. needs to be said

    Fri 08/29/2008

    Let me clear up a few things.
    I am alot more familiar with this situation than you would suspect. Your reply as well as Wendy’s ‘private investigation’ is based on assumptions and hearsay.
    Though there was chatter on the scene about a gun, none was used or recovered. Street rumor. Testimony in court however, reveals that one of the “three” did have some sort of weapon in his hand when he threw a sucker punch.
    I’ve seen no toxicology evidence that shows that Ramirez was under the influence of any drugs or alchohol. However, the boys admit to illegally consuming alchohol prior to the fight. In either case, drugs or alchohol are irrelavant.

    Well, thanks for writing again “needs to be said.” Let’s clear some stuff up. Wendy’s search can be repeated by anyone, anywhere, and therefore is not an “assumption” but fact. Just because YOU are not aware of the weapon, doesn’t mean it isn’t true. We’ll have to wait and see at the trial for that information to be verified. The tox report information was reported by the Morning Call at this link says that at least four Hispanic people came to the “brawl” and at least three of the boys saw the gun. That same page describes the toxicology results on Ramirez. In any case, drugs and alcohol are NOT irrelevant, as Ramirez toxic combo of alcohol and Xanax can cause severe aggression. Look it up.

    There are claims that Ramirez shouted at the boys in a threatening manner. It’s also claimed that Ramirez didn’t speak English. How did the “three” know what he was saying? Maybe he was shouting for them to leave him alone. He knew he was outnumbered and knew he was here illegally.
    I would possibly agree that this was a fight gone wrong. But it went wrong when the “three” instigated the situation to begin with. It went wrong when all three decided to fight with him instead of being one on one. It went wrong when they consciously decided to continually kick and stomp him after he was down and incapacitated.

    They said he was screaming in Spanish, and if you’ve ever pissed someone off (and you probably have), you would realize that the spoken language is not as important as his BODY LANGUAGE. Maybe he was shouting for them to leave him alone, but then again, if he wanted to be left alone, why did he go back after the boys with the help of his friend Victor Garcia Cruz instead of getting the Garcia’s car and leaving? I think you should read the testimony of Ben lawson, also available at that link above. They DID fight him one on one, and Ramirez kept coming at them like a bull as they were trying to get away from him.

    Ramirez’s physical condition is consistent with that information. EMS personnel found a shoe shaped bruise on his chest as well as the imprint of the necklace he was wearing. I’ve heard this explained away as being consistent with CPR, yet when EMS arrived, Luis was displaying shallow, snoring respirations. He was breathing, and had a heartbeat so there was no need for CPR. His head was soft and pliable which indicates a bit more than hitting his head on the pavement or one kick from one of the boys.

    Can you provide a link to verify this information? I have seen nothing that would allude to most of this.

    All this said, I agree with you that Ramirez should not have been here at all. This would not have happened if here were not. However, it did happen. A human being did lose his life and that cannot and should not go unpunished.

    I don’t think most people want this to go unpunished. I sure don’t. They did wrong. They drank underage, they were involved in a fight. These are illegal acts and should be punished IF there is enough evidence to prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

    I support and share your opposition to illegal immigration. I do think, however that you are allowing your emotions to cloud the line between two very separate issues.
    Your rally is supposed to be an anti-illegal immigration rally, yet your calls of support to the family of the boys who consciously and voluntarily continued to participate in a small mob beating shows that it’s really a support rally for the thugs who committed this horrible crime.

    Well, they are innocent until proven guilty. These two issues are undoubtedly related, however this protest is not a rally for the boys. The presence of a donation can for their families is in response to several requests I got from people wishing to donate. The cans will be there, but no announcement will be made of that during the event. Those that want to know about it, have already been told where they can put their donations. In case you have not fully read or comprehended all the information about this protest, we are going to be discussing illegal immigration, crime watch, the importance of citizen action, and related topics (not including this case).

    We have common ground on what I thought was your true purpose for this rally. I hope that it goes peacefully for both your organizations sake and the sake of the legal citizens of Shenandoah. I support your message regarding illegal immigration, but I cannot find the compassion to support these bullies.
    Thank you for allowing me to post a somewhat opposing opinion.

    I’m sorry you misunderstand the purpose of VOPUSA’s event. I hope I have cleared up some of the confusion and you see fit to join us. See, the protest is open to the public, including people such as yourself who might disagree with us. Disagreement and discussion are good, we welcome everyone to come, not just those who agree with everything our group stands for. We have had people who completely oppose EVERYTHING we stand for come to our rallies and talk to us.
    Thanks for posting your comments!


  6. needs tto be said

    Thu 08/28/2008

    While the idea of an anti-ILLEGAL immigration protest in Shenandoah is a good one, we need to be careful to ensure that this does not become a rally to support the thugs who committed a horrible crime.
    Ramirez should NOT have been here. He became a criminal when he crossed the border, however that crime is not punishable by death. The punishment is also not to be carried out by a few high school bad-asses.
    On a side note, the location selected for the rally is a horrible one. It is an isolated area of town where you’ll get no exposure. If you really want to make an impact, organize in front of Borough Hall or in the park next to Borough Hall. Isn’t the point of this rally to express your dissatisfaction with the local governments handling of the illegal immigration issue? Are you not trying to convince them to change their stance and take a stronger position against illegal immigration? The rally should be held in a location where you can gain maximum exposure for your cause. The Bicentennial Park will ensure that your cause goes pretty much unnoticed.

    Thanks for your comments, “needs to be said”. This gathering is intended to empower the people of Shenandoah, give them ways to combat illegal activity through legal means. This is not going to be “Free the Three” event … as they already are free, and it is up to the jury to decide their fate and the judge to decide punishment.
    In any regard, Those few high school “bad-asses” were not doling out justice against a criminal. They got into a fight with a man who had a violent criminal past and was not only drunk, but on drugs. That man then had at least two friends come to the scene of the fight with a weapon, which was then pointed into the faces of the boys.
    You seem to not be too familiar with what really happened, as opposed to what the newspaper told you happened.
    The location of Babe Ruth field was chosen by someone who lives in Shenandoah, and we took that person’s word for it that it was a good place to hold the protest. I don’t think “unnoticed” is the word to describe this event, especially not after all the calls i’ve been receiving from civilians to law enforcement to public officials. no, certainly not “unnoticed.” But I appreciate the concern. Thanks for posting.


  7. ron zombie

    Wed 08/27/2008

    perhaps I was misunderstood in my last posting.I did not mean to advocate violence,certainly not on my part.I meant to suggest that there are elements that thrive on confrontation in shenandoah and other communities.I agree that the message must not be about violence or the true message will get lost.i was trying to point out that these pro illegal immigrant groups are not bringing this town closer together but rather further driving a wedge between the latino community and the local indigenous population.Shenandoah is a multi-ethnic town which tolerates all people who are here LEGALLY. If I were to move to another country it would be incumbent upon me to learn that country’s language,customs and history.I would not expect that country to cater to me for I would be the outsider,the newcomer.Shouldn’t those who emigrate to another country be the first to extend the olive branch? anyway count me and mine as those who will attend saturday nights gathering

    Hello again! I know you were not advocating violence, but I feel it’s my duty to say that over and over again, as a deterrent to anyone who might be watching and get bad ideas. I have noticed that Shen is more divided than ever since the brown supremacists showed up. So much for unity, eh?
    They never wanted unity in the pure sense of the word. They wanted Americans to sit down, shutup, not put up a fight, and settle into their new status as minority in this country. Americans will not go down like that. We will not give in that easily, and, as the old saying goes (with my own spin), they can pry my country out of my cold dead hands.


  8. ron zombie

    Wed 08/27/2008

    yes it was a shame that a man lost his life in shenandoah.but let’s stop making him to be a martyr.if he was such a wonderful and dedicated family man,what was he doing at a park at 11:30 at night with a 15 yr,old girl?perhaps reading poetry or pursuing the astronomical sciences? as far as those “supporters” they are only appearing to further their causes for illegal immigrants.this is very obvious.but when white groups try to show support they are immediately branded racist.let the justice system do it’s job,let’s not try people in the press!! as for those illegal immigrant support groups-STAY THE HELL OUT OF SHENANDOAH,IF YOU SEEK CONFRONTATION YOU WILL UNDOUBTABLY FIND IT!

    Rob Zombie, thanks for posting your comments. I have to tell you, though, that violence never solves anything. The protest MUST be peaceful or our message will be lost and our goals not obtained. Of course there is always a double standard when it comes to racist groups – as you have noted, brown supremacy groups have all the leeway in the world, because they have support of other groups like the ACLU and MALDEF, who are intimidating (to some people). We also have media who like to twist stories into something they’re not, such as the Morning Call’s article today about the protest not having a permit. That is not exactly true. A permit was requested by phone, but the boro manager said it needed to be in writing, so that has been mailed, and an email sent as well. But the paper didn’t see fit to print all of that. Regardless, it is up to American Citizens and legal immigrants to protest and use legal means to stop the foreign invasion. No violence will be condoned or permitted at the protest. Might I suggest you use your anger for good — by getting involved in the crime watch group we’re trying to set up or by starting a Shenandoah anti-Illegal Immigration group? Don’t give in to the frustrations, it will only hurt us all in the end.


  9. Fredrick

    Mon 08/25/2008

    You need to talk about the two issues, immigration and murder, they have nothing to do with each other. The law on the books you talk so much about are going to show you that. They are GUILTY regardless of what immigration issues we are facing. THEY MURDERED HIM, FIRST AND FOREMOST GOD KNOWS IT AND THEY KNOW IT!!! Now its a shame that all of their lives are wasted.

    For as far as the rumors of this guy selling drugs, let me break it down for you. If the Mexiacns are setting up camp in this town to sell their drugs then the white people must be buying them.

    So to all the parents in Shenadoah shooting their mouth off about the bad Mexicans should stand in front of a mirror and ask what kind of children they have raised since they are obviously the ones buying the drugs. So we are ALL to blame for allowing this to happen.

    I pray that god brings peace to this community. I have come in contact with many people across this county and they want to see this town and county and its elected officals realize this is more than a”Black Eye” and that some action be taken to see this never happens agian. This can only happen through education and understanding all across the board.

    I just dont know how people in this area can cloud a MURDER with IMMIGRATION.

    Thanks for your comments. Innocent until proven guilty. And the fact still remains, that had this illegal alien not been here illegally (which means against the law) then he would not be dead right now.




    el chico,
    thanks for leaving your comments (sort of). I don’t know why you have resorted to foul-mouthed accusations with no basis in truth, but I suspect it’s because you have no real argument against my facts. Also, “they” cannot be “more Americans” than I am because I am a natural-born citizen, and “they” are illegal aliens with allegiances to many other nations. BTW, I am so glad you told me I’m racist. Now can you please tell me which race it is that I hate, because I can’t seem to figure it out.. I was pretty sure that my disgust is for the lack of respect for the law that my forefathers put on the books.

    [This is a Family Sensitive Blog. Do NOT ever again use such Immature, Foul Language, or you will be banned from this site and from ever Commenting again. —ed]